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Latest posts from topic “Circuiti dinamici:domande sul regime forzato più esercizio” Latest posts from topic “Circuiti dinamici:domande sul regime forzato più esercizio” on “ElectroYou”. 2016-06-09T10:21:21Z https://www.electroyou.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64553 Re: Circuiti dinamici:domande sul regime forzato più eserciz https://www.electroyou.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64553#p654569 admin 2016-06-12T12:46:45Z 2016-06-12T12:46:45Z
Appunto, non è un problema. Il segno va riferito ai versi assunti arbitrariamente e se si scelgono versi opposti le soluzioni hanno segno opposto.
Re: Circuiti dinamici:domande sul regime forzato più eserciz https://www.electroyou.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64553#p654567 DLz 2016-06-12T12:42:42Z 2016-06-12T12:42:42Z
Si infatti ho rifatto i calcoli e commettevo un errore, per questo trovavo un valore diverso.
Un'ultima domanda, se non cambio il verso di una corrente per avere E0 positivo, nel circuito di Thévenin, quello dove ho solo E0,Rth e l'elemento dinamico, devo mettere E0 negativa (e quindi lasciarla col segno che avevo trovato) o cambiarle comunque segno e considerarla positiva?
Lo chiedo perché in base a questo cambia poi il segno del termine noto nell'equazione differenziale, che non è un problema ok, ma vorrei esserne sicuro.
Grazie! :-)
Re: Circuiti dinamici:domande sul regime forzato più eserciz https://www.electroyou.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64553#p654484 admin 2016-06-11T18:45:00Z 2016-06-11T18:45:00Z
Direi che va bene, ma che è inutile cambiare il verso della corrente per avere E_0 positivo, anzi è dannoso in quanto devi a quel punto modificare gli schemi.
La stranezza che trovi nell'invertire il verso della corrente è errori che commetti nella risoluzione: il valore di corrente non può dipendere dal verso arbitrario che si sceglie per un'incognita
Re: Circuiti dinamici:domande sul regime forzato più esereci https://www.electroyou.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64553#p654248 DLz 2016-06-10T16:51:08Z 2016-06-10T16:51:08Z
Ok, ho svolto l'esercizio.
Ricordando che percorro le maglie in verso orario e le correnti sono positive se uscenti dai nodi e negative se entranti, ho:
Condizioni iniziali per t=0^-



Sono in regime stazionario, quindi il condensatore si comporta come un circuito aperto, allora

ic=\frac{\mathrm{d} Vc}{\mathrm{d} t}=0 da questo deriva che ig=i1

quindi Vc=costante=-i1R1

V3=i3R3

-i1-1-15i3R3+i2=0

i1+13+1=0

i1R1+i2R2-i3R3-E=0

Sostituendo ottengo:

i3=\frac{11}{84}=0,13 A

i1=-1,13 A

Vc=  1,13 V

Quì ho notato qualcosa di strano: perché se cambio il verso di i3, ottengo i3=\frac{11}{96}=0,11 A ??

Studio per t>0 e quindi [unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]

Sostituisco a tutto il cercuito resistivo con i due generatori (quello di tensione e quello controllato) il suo equivalente di Thévenin.

Calcolo di Rth



Vab=i1R1

-i3+15i3R3-i2=0

-1+i1+i3=0

i1R1+i2R2-i3R3=0

Sostituendo trovo

i1=1,01 A

Vab= 1,01V

Rth = 1,01\Omega

Calcolo di E0



E0=i1R1

-i1-15i3R3+i2=0

-i3+15i3R3-i2=0

i1R1+i2R2-i3R3-E=0

Sostituendo trovo

i3= 0,12A

i1=-0,12A Allora cambio verso ad i1 in modo da avere i1 positiva e anche E0 positiva

i1=0,12 A

E0=0,12 V

Calcolo della soluzione Vc(t)


E0-Vth-Vc=0

Vth=ithRth

ith=ic=C\frac{\mathrm{d} Vc}{\mathrm{d} t}

Sostituendo e risolvendo trovo

CRth\frac{\mathrm{d} Vc}{\mathrm{d} t} + Vc = 0,12 (1)

Allora

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]

Per trovare vp(t) procedo così

impongo [unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula] e la sostituisco nella (1)

E trovo V=0,12V

K= 1,13-0,12=1,01

Quindi

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]

Ho sbagliato qualcosa?
Grazie! :D
Re: Circuiti dinamici:domande sul regime forzato più esereci https://www.electroyou.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64553#p654033 admin 2016-06-09T17:13:31Z 2016-06-09T17:13:31Z
Come ti ha già scritto Foto UtenteStokes, [unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula] è pari ad 1 fino all'istante t=0 e si annulla dopo tale istante, che è l'istante iniziale del transitorio.
All'istante zero il condensatore è sottoposto ad una certa tensione, V_0, che si trova risolvendo la rete con [unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula].
All'istante zero si ha [unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]=0 e, risolvendo la rete con questa condizione, si trova il nuovo valore a regime della tensione sul condensatore: V_F.
A questa tensione, che è il regime permanente finale, si sovrappone l'evoluzione libera che dipende dalla tensione iniziale sul condensatore e dalla resistenza R vista dai suoi terminali e che è un esponenziale del tipo: [unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula] con \tau=RC e K costante da determinare in base alla condizione iniziale.
Tale somma rappresenta il regime transitorio [unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]. Ad essa si impone che, all'istante zero, la tensione sia quella che il condensatore ha in quell'istante, che è quella calcolata inizialmente; il che permette di ricavare K=V_0-V_F
Re: Circuiti dinamici:domande sul regime forzato più esereci https://www.electroyou.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64553#p654016 DLz 2016-06-09T16:04:33Z 2016-06-09T16:04:33Z
[quote="Stokes"]
Regime stazionario vuol dire che le variabili di stato sono costanti, non che sono nulle! Il condensatore è un circuito aperto e la tensione ai suoi capi è incognita ed è la condizione iniziale.


Grazie mille per le risposte. Ad ogni modo, io mi riferivo al fatto che fosse nullo il transitorio se il regime è sempre stazionario, non che fossero nulle le variabili di stato.
Per essere chiari, nel caso di un condensatore, detta vp(t) una qualunque soluzione particolare dell'equazione differenziale, la soluzione è del tipo

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula] per t\geq t0 con t0 istante iniziale

il termine [unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula] che dipende dalla condizione iniziale [unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula] è il transitorio, giusto? Allora, non è lui ad essere nullo se il regime è sempre stazionario?
Grazie :-)
Re: Circuiti dinamici:domande sul regime forzato più esereci https://www.electroyou.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64553#p653995 Stokes 2016-06-09T13:29:41Z 2016-06-09T13:29:41Z
Ora non ho tempo di controllare i conti, cerco di rispondere velocemente alle tue domande:
1)l'esercizio dice che il regime costante si instaura per t\rightarrow +\infty perché allora ho regime costante che per t=0^- ?

Il circuito si ritiene a regime per t=0^-, in quanto si assume che il circuito sia alimentato dalle stesse sorgenti da molto tempo; dopo la commutazione del generatore di corrente inizia il transitorio che si esaurisce riportandoci in una condizione di equilibrio diversa (in generale) da quella di partenza
3)Se il regime è stazionario sempre, la condizione iniziale, che è la parte transitoria della soluzione, non è sempre nulla?

Regime stazionario vuol dire che le variabili di stato sono costanti, non che sono nulle! Il condensatore è un circuito aperto e la tensione ai suoi capi è incognita ed è la condizione iniziale.
2)Il fatto che mi resti J(t) nei calcoli è dovuto al fatto che io pensavo che pert=0^- il regime non fosse stazionario. Se invece, come dici, lo è sempre, J(t) = u(-t) a cosa è uguale?

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula] è una funzione gradino di Heaviside, specchiata rispetto all'origine: la corrente è costante per t=0^-, a t=0 diventa nulla: è questo che causa il transitorio (puoi immaginare che in parallelo al generatore di corrente ci sia un interruttore che si chiude a t=0)
Re: Circuiti dinamici:domande sul regime forzato più esereci https://www.electroyou.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64553#p653982 DLz 2016-06-09T12:31:36Z 2016-06-09T12:31:36Z
#-o
Allora, con l'equazuione corretta, trovo

-6i3+30V3=-1

cambiando il verso di i3, trovo

i3=0,01A

i2=0,44A

i1=0,85A

V3=0,03V

Vab=0,82V

Rth=0,82 \Omega

Giusto?

Per le mie domande al post 4, puoi darmi una mano?
Grazie :-)
Re: Circuiti dinamici:domande sul regime forzato più esereci https://www.electroyou.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64553#p653975 admin 2016-06-09T12:06:38Z 2016-06-09T12:06:38Z
[quote="DLz"]
i1R1-i3R3=0

Comincerei con l'osservare che qui manca un pezzo: la tensione ai capi del generatore di corrente controllato, che è poi la tensione su R_2
i_1R_1+i_2R_2-i_3R_3=0
Re: Circuiti dinamici:domande sul regime forzato più esereci https://www.electroyou.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64553#p653957 DLz 2016-06-09T10:21:21Z 2016-06-09T10:21:21Z
Ecco i miei calcoli.
Prima di scrivere il problema di Cauchy, ho ridotto il circuito al suo equivalente di Thévenin, in modo da avere un solo generatore (E0), una sola resistenza (Rth) ed il condensatore C.

Calcolo di Rth (spengo tutti i generatori indipendenti)



-i1+i2-15V3+i=0

i1R1-i3R3=0

i2=-i3 + 15V3= 3,5

Sostiuendo trovo:

i3 = 0,25A

V3 = 0,75V

Vab= i3R3 + i1R1 = 0.75V

Rth= \frac{Vab}{i} = 0,75Ω

A questo punto calcolo E0 (tensione a vuoto) con il metodo della sovrapposizione degli effetti, spegnendo uno ad uno i generatori. Per farlo suppongo nota la corrente 15V3, e poingo I=15V3 e calcolo poi la grandezza pilota V3.

Primo circuito


[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]

Sostituendo trovo:

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]

Secondo circuito


[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]

Sostituendo ottengo

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]

Terzo circuito


[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]

Sostituendo trovo:

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]

Allora
[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]

A questo punto posso procedere con l'impostazione del problema di Cauchy. Ma, da quello che hai scritto, non so se è giusto quello che ho fatto.