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Latest posts from topic “Dubbio su una tensione in regime stazionario” Latest posts from topic “Dubbio su una tensione in regime stazionario” on “ElectroYou”. 2017-09-08T16:49:30Z https://www.electroyou.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=70639 Re: Dubbio su una tensione in regime stazionario https://www.electroyou.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=70639#p728649 marymarymary 2017-09-10T13:15:27Z 2017-09-10T13:15:27Z
Grazie mille, mi hai aperto gli occhi su un problema che non credevo di avere, sto controllando tutti gli esercizi che ho fatto, ed applicando questa cosa si trovano tutti. Grazie ancora!!!
Gentilissimi tutti quanti, e davvero disponibili! :D :D :D
Alla prossima O_/
Re: Dubbio su una tensione in regime stazionario https://www.electroyou.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=70639#p728575 RenzoDF 2017-09-09T20:51:40Z 2017-09-09T20:51:40Z
Stai dimenticando che le condizioni iniziali devi usarle con le soluzioni complete, che sono del tipo

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]
Re: Dubbio su una tensione in regime stazionario https://www.electroyou.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=70639#p728546 marymarymary 2017-09-09T18:28:02Z 2017-09-09T18:28:02Z
Anch'io ho ottenuto\lambda _{1}=-12,99 s^{-1} e \lambda _{2}=-48,1 s^{-1},
Risolvendo poi il sistema :
\begin{Bmatrix}k_{1}+k_{2}=0
 &  &  & \\ \lambda _{1}k_{1}+\lambda _{2}k_{2}=1333,3
 &  &  & 
\end{Bmatrix}
ottengo: k_{1}=37,97 e k_{2}=-37,97
Ma a quanto ho capito non è corretto... perchè in questo modo la soluzione è valida per un tempo che tende a infinito, ma non per un tempo che tende a zero...
Re: Dubbio su una tensione in regime stazionario https://www.electroyou.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=70639#p728531 RenzoDF 2017-09-09T17:51:21Z 2017-09-09T17:51:21Z
Alternativamente i due poli possono essere determinati direttamente dall'ispezione della rete, via metodo delle costanti di tempo, andando a ricavare i due coefficienti del polinomio caratteristico

a_2s^2+a_1s+1

con le due classiche relazioni:

i) Sommatoria delle costanti di tempo relative alle n capacità Ci, con le restanti aperte
[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]

ii) Sommatoria del prodotto fra le precedenti costanti di tempo e quella relativa alle rimanenti capacità Cj con Ci in corto e le restanti aperte
[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]

per poi ottenere i due poli risolvendo la seguente equazione

\frac{s^2}{625}+\frac{22}{225}+1=0
Re: Dubbio su una tensione in regime stazionario https://www.electroyou.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=70639#p728502 DanteCpp 2017-09-09T15:57:34Z 2017-09-09T15:57:34Z
Si anche io nel quaderno ho questo sistema, ho sbagliato battendolo...
Re: Dubbio su una tensione in regime stazionario https://www.electroyou.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=70639#p728497 gac 2017-09-09T15:48:39Z 2017-09-09T15:48:39Z
Confermo la correttezza dei valori numerici riportati da Foto UtenteRenzoDF (che mi permetto di menzionare). Riporto le equazioni associate al sistema lineare da me ricavate; sostituendo i valori si otterranno gli stessi coefficienti del messaggio precedente.

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]
Re: Dubbio su una tensione in regime stazionario https://www.electroyou.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=70639#p728469 RenzoDF 2017-09-09T14:27:30Z 2017-09-09T14:27:30Z
... magari sbaglio io. :-)

BTW Occhio agli errori di battitura nello schema e nel sistema simbolico.
Re: Dubbio su una tensione in regime stazionario https://www.electroyou.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=70639#p728466 DanteCpp 2017-09-09T14:21:44Z 2017-09-09T14:21:44Z
Penso tu abbia ragione, devo stare più attento.
Grazie per aver controllato.
Re: Dubbio su una tensione in regime stazionario https://www.electroyou.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=70639#p728453 RenzoDF 2017-09-09T12:15:29Z 2017-09-09T12:15:29Z
Giusto per creare un po' più di confusione :mrgreen: , non concordo su risultato di Foto UtenteDanteCpp in quanto la matrice dei coefficienti mi risulta

\textbf{A}=\begin{pmatrix}
-125/3 &  50/3 \\ 
 100/9   &- 175/9 
\end{pmatrix}

e di conseguenza, ricavando gli autovalori via

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula]

dalla seguente equazione

9\lambda^2+550\lambda+5625=0

ottengo

\lambda_1\approx -48.124 \,\,  \text{s}^{-1} \qquad \lambda_2 \approx -12.987 \, \,  \text{s}^{-1}
Re: Dubbio su una tensione in regime stazionario https://www.electroyou.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=70639#p728350 DanteCpp 2017-09-08T16:49:30Z 2017-09-08T16:49:30Z
Just for fun, ti presento una soluzione basata sulla famosa formula di Lagrange della teoria dei sistemi, molto diffusa in automatica.

Prima di tutto faccio l'equivalente di Thevenin alla maglia di destra,

.

Poi, traduco il circuito in equazioni di stato,

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula],

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula].

Sostituisco i valori numerici e riscrivo il sistema in forma matriciale,

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula].

Ricordo che le condizioni iniziali sono:

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula].

La formula di Lagrange per un modello in variabili di stato, scritto nella forma,

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula],

è

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula].

Dove, il termine e^{At} è la matrice di transizione dello stato, che ho calcolato usando matlab con il seguente script;

Code: Seleziona tutto
A=[-33.33, 12.5; 11.11, -27.78];

syms t;

digits(4);

expm(A*t);

vpa(ans)


che restituisce

Code: Seleziona tutto
>> transA

ans =

[ 0.3854*exp(-18.45*t) + 0.6146*exp(-42.66*t), 0.5162*exp(-18.45*t) - 0.5162*exp(-42.66*t)]
[ 0.4588*exp(-18.45*t) - 0.4588*exp(-42.66*t), 0.6146*exp(-18.45*t) + 0.3854*exp(-42.66*t)]

>>


A questo punto ho calcolato l'integrale di convoluzione, per determinare la risposta forzata. Vale la pena notare che non è necessario calcolare tutto quanto, infatti noi siamo interessati alla v_2.

\int_0^t \begin{bmatrix}
a_{11}&  a_{12} \\ 
0.4588 e^{-18.45t} - 0.4588e^{-42.66t} & a_{22}
\end{bmatrix} \begin{bmatrix}
3000\\0  

\end{bmatrix}\text{d}\tau=\int_0^t \begin{bmatrix}
a_{11}\\ 
1380 e^{-18.45t} - 1380e^{-42.66t} 
\end{bmatrix}\text{d}\tau.

Quindi sostanzialmente a noi interessa calcolare l'integrale,

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula].

Mettendo assieme i tasselli, si ottiene:

[unparseable or potentially dangerous latex formula].